The Sopranos creator David Chase recently opened up about the casting process and revealed he had some hesitation with selecting James Gandolfini for the role of Tony Soprano.

Before the iconic series took over pop culture, the pilot script was just drifting between networks, according to Vulture.

Chase was trying to land a gig on a Marg Helgenberger CBS show and used the Sopranos script as a writing sample. That’s how it ended up in the hands of Gandolfini’s managers—Helgenberger’s reps, too.

The actor’s manager Nancy Sanders, read it and had a gut reaction:

“Oh my God, I think I have Tony Soprano.”

She called Chase mid–Sunday dinner. He’d had some wine.

“I’m totally into having this conversation with you, but I may not remember it.”

Next day, he watched Gandolfini’s VHS reel and was instantly intrigued—but unsure:

“I think he’s brilliant. I have one concern, and that is, Is he threatening enough?”

Sanders shut that down fast:

“If you said to me, ‘He’s a little chubby,’ or ‘He’s losing his hair,’ I could understand. But he’s threatening enough. This is your guy.”

Casting directors Georgianne Walken and Sheila Jaffe were already fans. They’d seen Jim’s softer side in an indie Sundance workshop, and they knew:

“He was really our favorite idea from the beginning.”

Gandolfini, for his part, loved the script—but didn’t think he had a chance:

“They’ll hire some f**king pretty boy.”

He met with Chase over breakfast—grumbling the whole way:

“Oh, for f**k’s sake. This guy wants to eat breakfast? This guy’s going to be a pain in the a**.”

Instead, they laughed about their moms. Then came the audition, where Gandolfini stopped mid-read:

“I’m not doing this right… I want to come back and do it for you again.”

He delayed. Blamed his mom’s death—months after she’d actually passed. Eventually, they got him on tape in L.A. and it clicked:

“When he finally settled down and really did a reading, it was just obvious.”

Still, HBO wanted a choice. Three actors tested. Michael Imperioli remembered one surprise:

“The casting director pulled me aside and said, ‘That’s Little Steven Van Zandt wearing a wig.’”

HBO execs liked Mike Rispoli—he was “funnier.” But Chase said:

“It’s a much darker show with Jimmy in it.”

So they went with dark. They went with real. They went with Gandolfini.

Jim, meanwhile, still wasn’t sold. Sitting in a hotel near HBO HQ, he said:

“Why am I doing this? I came to you to do f**king movies. And now I’m doing an HBO series? I don’t even know what the network is!”

Sanders pressed him:

“This is the best piece of writing I’ve ever read… I promise you: This is worth doing.”

Jim signed the deal with one last shrug:

“Fine. F**k it.”

And just like that, Tony Soprano came to life—with doubt, sweat, and a hell of a lot of heart.