“Number 6 is a gentleman from Mauritania.”

These seven words from Episode 2 of Pluribus mark the debut of Mr. Koumba Diabaté, portrayed by Samba Schutte. For Schutte, a Dutch-Mauritanian actor, this introduction is deeply significant as it reflects a collaboration with creator Vince Gilligan to authentically represent his heritage on screen.

“When I first received the script, it was a placeholder with little information about the character’s background. During my conversation with Vince after landing the role, he was curious about my origins. I mentioned I was born in Oualata, Mauritania,” Schutte shared in a Zoom interview with Decider, describing their creative partnership. “Playing a Mauritanian character on an American television show is a rare honor and a unique opportunity.”

Following his dramatic appearance on “Air Force Koumba” in Episode 2, Mr. Diabaté embarks on a lavish escapade in Las Vegas, only for Carol (played by Rhea Seehorn) to interrupt with alarming news regarding The Others. When she visits his penthouse suite at The Westgate in Episode 6, she discovers that Mr. Diabaté is not only informed but also has a strategic edge on the unfolding crisis.

Anticipation for Mr. Diabaté’s reappearance prompted Schutte to discuss his thoughts on the episode’s major revelation, John Cena’s guest appearance, the experience of filming in Elvis Presley’s “actual bedroom,” and collaborating with Seehorn, among other topics, in a conversation with Decider.

DECIDER: Before we dive into your episodes, I want to ask about crafting Mr. Diabaté, a gentleman from Mauritania. Can you talk a bit about the creative collaboration between you and Vince, and what it means to be able to celebrate your culture through this character? 

SAMBA SCHUTTE: I mean, it’s everything. That’s such a great question, because when I first got the sides, they were just dummy sides, and we didn’t know who this guy was or where he came from. When I had the call with Vince when I got the job, he asked me where I came from, where I was born, and I said, Oualata, Mauritania. And he said, “Bless you.” [Laughs] I’m kidding. He’s like, “Where is that?” It was Africa, and he was really fascinated by that. So we came up with the name, Mr. Diabaté. The first name was actually the name of the character in the dummy sides. I thought Mr. Koumba was a lovely name, because Koumba is a woman’s name in my culture, and the only reason a guy takes on that name is if his mother passes away during childbirth. I thought that was a great backstory for this character, that he doesn’t have parents or loved ones. And Vince had no idea. He’s like, “I just googled an African name! But that makes so much sense!” So we kept Koumba.

When I was talking to Vince, he was like, “Your role was so hard to cast, because most guys played him sleazy, or creepy, and it’s easy to fall into that trap.” But in the audition, I played him with sweetness and a kind of childlike excitement. They loved that, because at the end of the day, Vince said this guy did not come from a good life. He did not come from opulence, probably suffered a lot, probably was alone a lot, and was definitely not successful with women. So all of a sudden, the world changes, and he’s like a kid in a candy store. Coming up with that was fantastic. And making him Mauritanian was such a gift that shows how collaborative Vince is. It’s such an honor to play someone from my country. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mauritanian character on an American TV show, and to have references of Mauritanian dishes [like poulet yassa] and Mauritanian names —

Shoutout, Auntie Awa!

[Laughs] Yes, my Auntie Awa. And my family, it’s like what is happening right now? Mauritanian are reaching out to me on social media like, “YAY!!!!” 

Oh my gosh, that’s incredible. I was very curious if you had a sense of Mr. Diabaté’s backstory, because we meet him on Day 2 of the Joining and he’s very well adjusted. We got little those glimpses of who Carol and Zosia were before this, so is that backstory or even Mr. Diabate’s Day 1 reaction something you’d like to explore down the line?

Yeah. I think it’s really interesting where everyone was at when the Joining happened. And I don’t think he came from a good life, but he’s very sharp. He’s a very inquisitive straight-shooter. He has no problem asking straight questions and trying to understand the rules of the game. And I think that once he understood the rules of the game — everyone loves me, everyone wants to make me happy, everyone will give me what I want until they find a way to turn me — he was like, “Let me live it up!” At the end of the day, The Others are very honest and they’re like, “Yeah, we’ll find a way to make you join us.” So he doesn’t know how much time he has.

Episode 5 ended on a major cliffhanger, and in Episode 6 we learn that Carol did find frozen bodies and that the Others are drinking Human Derived Protein (HDP) in their milk. [Laughs] What were your thoughts when you first learned about the cannibalism twist, and of course, that John Cena would be breaking the news.

[Laughs] When I first read that it was bodies I was like “NO!!! It’s going the zombie route!” But Vince was very clear that, “Hey, we’re just playing with these tropes. We’re going to lead the audience one way, and then the next episode, lead the other way and play with all these sci-fi zombie and body snatcher tropes.” I loved that it’s justified. And who better to justify cannibalism than John Cena? [Laughs] And to say, “We’re eating bodies because otherwise a billion people are going to starve to death!” So I love that that was the twist, and for Kumba, it’s a very rational thing. He doesn’t agree with it, but he understands. At the end of the day, we don’t want people to starve to death. They didn’t kill these people, technically. So in a way, I guess it’s OK! Because they can’t pick an apple. So why not recycle brains or whatever! But Carol’s like “AHH!” And I love that dynamic, because Koumba understands both sides of the coin. He understands the Others, he understands Carol, but he’s very much the diplomat. The middle road. Carol is really like, “I want to change the world.” And he’s like, “But why?”

You get some quality one-on-one time with Rhea in Episode 6. What’s it like to collaborate with her? 

She’s fantastic. I mean, gosh, Rhea is such a special human being. When I got the job, she called me, and I’ve never had a number one on a call sheet ever call me to welcome me to the show, but also to want to rehearse with me. I was like, “What’s wrong with you?” [Laughs] And she said, “This is what I do. I just want to welcome people and make you feel part of the family.” And she made me feel so welcome and also made me aware of how Vince works, because he shoots a lot, and directs a lot, and is fine-tuning the tone. So she warned me, “That doesn’t mean you’re a bad actor when he’s giving you direction. It just means that he’s trying to find the tone and he’s giving it to you because he knows you can handle it.” Being with her was so relaxing. She’s so funny and so dramatic and so everything in one go. Acting with her was so much fun, because the dynamic between our characters — we’re such polar opposites. We found the commonality between our characters, which is we’re both a little lonely, and we both value individuality over anything else. Acting with her was such a blessing, because she gives so much. Even when the coverage is not on her, she gives you everything you need, so you, as an actor, rise to the occasion because of her and want to give her everything she needs when it’s on her. It was so fun to have so much time with her. 

Two scenes that really struck me in Episode 6 were when Mr. Diabaté is on the phone with his ladies and then finds Carol asleep. He covers her with the blanket and has this quiet, honest moment of solitude where looks genuinely troubled. And we get a glimpse of that the next day when he has the option to let Carol stay longer and comfort her, but he prioritizes his own desires. What do you think was going through his mind in those more serious moments of reflection? 

That’s a great question, and great job spotting that. I think more than anything, he’s realizing he has much more in common with Carol than he thought. I think he very quickly clocks her loneliness and is kind of negotiating on her behalf with The Others. Like, “Hey, she’s lonely. Can you do anything for her?” But at the same time, he realizes that what they have in common is they value their individuality over anything else, but their approach and how they want to deal with this new world, is different. Carol wants to turn it around by using science. Manousos wants to turn it around by, like, killing everybody. [Laughs] And Koumba wants to save the planet by stopping people from starving to death and finding a way to make enough food for these people. He’s accepting the change, but wants to find a way to keep living his life without becoming one of them. So in those moments, I think he’s struggling with wanting to be an ally to Carol. He tells her he’s there for her, but he doesn’t want to sacrifice the good life he has. I mean, who doesn’t want to be James Bond in a hot tub? [Laughs] 

Speaking of the hot tub, we have to talk about the Westgate’s Elvis Presley penthouse. What was it like filming on that stunning set and shooting that elaborate poker scene?

We started with Episode 6 over Episode 2, so that was the first time I was shooting.

Oh my god, you dove right in!

Yeah, stepping into those shoes was ridiculous. I remember coming into Vegas and then like hour two of walking around the casino, security guards are chasing me, and I’m like, “What did I do? I didn’t steal!” And they’re like, “Oh no, you’re the guy we saw outside!” And I’m like, “What do you mean?!” And they lead me outside and there’s these huge photos of me in Elvis Presley outfits hanging out outside the casino.

AHH!
So there were portraits of me everywhere, the finest clothes, 150 extras all watching me play this poker game. It just really informed me about who this guy is. So I quickly was able to step into his shoes. But the opulence was ridiculous. We did not decorate those hotel rooms. That’s how the suites are. And it was so fun to shoot there, because you felt Mr. Diabaté’s fascination with Elvis Presley, because where we shot the poker scene was Elvis’s actual bedroom when he stayed there for eight years when it was called The International Hotel. So it was just like living my fantasy within my fantasy. It was so fun to to experience and to feel that energy of how old this place has been, how much history it has, and how much opulence you’re surrounded by. I didn’t have to act because it was literally all there. 

Speaking of iconic sets, let’s rewind to Episode 2. What was it like filming on Air Force Koumba and shooting those two big group scenes?

It was so fun. We shot that in Albuquerque, and they actually built a part of the airplane. So I literally had to open a real airplane door, which, by the way Nicole, is super heavy. I don’t know how the stewardesses do it, and at the same time, I was like 30 feet in the air. So they had to tie me with ropes so I didn’t fall to my death.

That’s a stunt!

Yeah! I did my own stunts! There was nothing better than opening that door and making it look smooth and then looking down at the people there and feeling like a kind who just landed. The set was so beautiful, and the interiors were so amazing. Our designer, Denise Pizzini, designed it literally like the interior of Air Force One. The press room was there. The conference room was there. There were stairs, a bathroom, it all looked so real. I felt presidential immediately.

Costume designer Jennifer Bryan also outdid herself with your wardrobe. Do you have a favorite fit? And what’s the story behind the Super Bowl rings?

Jennifer is amazing. When we took photos of my character, we tried all these different outfits and she told me she designed this custom African suit for when we first meet the character. That’s my favorite outfit because it’s got hints of Mauritanian culture, but also the pattern is “all eyes on me,” because I’m introducing myself as a character and making an entrance. And I love that we see that dress pattern, an African print, on TV. It immediately made me understand who this guy is. He wants people to see him. He’s putting on an act at that point, like “I’m the president of the world.” And no matter which outfit I was wearing, the props people would come to me with like three treasure chests of watches, and rings, and sunglasses, and props. So I got to choose what I wanted for each one. And I saw three Super Bowl rings at one point, so I’m like “Of course he’s going to want a Super Bowl ring. Are you kidding me? He’s going to want to experience being everything.” So at the lunch scene I’m wearing, I think Tom Brady’s championship ring. 

Incredible. There’s been a lot of talk around the themes and subtext of Pluribus, and Vince has said he wants people to decide what the show is for themselves. So what is Pluribus about to you?

I think it’s great that all these discussions are happening about AI, conformity, COVID, isolation, whatever. I think more than anything for me, I love the human aspect of it. I love human nature and the study of how humans deal with change. Do people live in denial about it? Do people want to reverse it? Or do people embrace it? And that’s what’s going on. For me, it’s like a larger theme. It’s more about what makes us human. How do we value our humanity? And would you want to be in utopia? Or would you want to be an individual even if you’re miserable?

If the virus were real, would you want to join The Others?

Oh, I’d want to be Mr. Diabaté all the way. [Laughs] I don’t want to become one of the Others. I value my individuality, my free will, my humanity way too much. I, too, would learn the rules of the game and live out my fantasies until I knew I couldn’t. YOLO, you know? 

We haven’t seen you interact with the great Carlos-Manuel Vesga on screen yet, but I’ve seen all the BTS love between you two. What can you tell us about him, and could we ever see your characters together?

He’s such a love. We are both Aquariuses. We almost share a birthday in February. He’s such a sweetheart, and we keep joking about wanting to see us both on screen together. I think Mr. Diabaté and Manousous meeting for the first time is going to be epic. Diabaté’s just going to be like, “Here’s a martini, relax, relax.” And he’s not going to want to. 

Fingers crossed! Critics only got seven episodes, and every day I wake up yearning for more. Can you tease something about the end of the series?

The finale has everything you want and everything you don’t expect. 

Before we go. January 2026 marks your 15-year anniversary in Los Angeles. Pluribus has set a record for Apple TV’s biggest drama premiere. You have peers like Ben Stiller praising the show. What does it mean to you to be at this place in your career as that milestone approaches? 

Oh my gosh, I mean, what a dream. When you move to LA, you just hope that you’re working. And I’ve been lucky enough to work with great people I’ve looked up to, like Mike Schur and Taika Waititi. But to be working with Vince Gilligan, who made some of the greatest TV shows of all time with Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. It was a dream come true. But also, you don’t know what’s going to happen when you make a show. We filmed for a year, we worked hard for a year, and to see that hard work pay off and people praise it and Apple crashing on premiere day is so surreal. You just feel so lucky and blessed that people are resonating with it and talking about it. 15 years in, I just feel so lucky. I can’t even express how grateful I am to Vince, Rhea, Karolina, and everybody. Apple. Sony. It’s just surreal. 

This interview was edited for length and clarity.

New episodes of Pluribus premiere Fridays on Apple TV.