Katie Ginella might be getting the villain treatment on this season of The Real Housewives of Orange County, but she has no plans to turn in her orange just yet. “I’d love to return and actually get the women that I would be with to actually get to know me, because I don’t think I’ve been afforded that yet,” Ginella recently told Decider.

The former golf reporter, who joined RHOC in Season 18, had a rough start on the show, initially butting heads with Heather Dubrow over her *allegedly* staged paparazzi pics and a rather disappointing receipt to prove her point. Going up against Fancy Pants, however, was nothing compared to what she’s facing this season.

The Katie Ginella Hate Train left the station in Season 19, Episode 1 with Emily Simpson as its conductor. Their feud started last season after Ginella’s daughter Kaili babysat Simpson’s kids, and later claimed that they were speaking negatively about Dubrow. After the reunion, Simpson’s former nanny reached out to Ginella to share a similar experience from her time working for the family. Because Ginella was still upset with Simpson for bringing up her custody situation at the “traumatic” reunion, she told the ex-babysitter which podcast her daughter had recently appeared on to tell her story, prompting the woman to do the same thing.

Ginella was also confronted by Tamra Judge for speaking about her to bloggers, and by Shannon Beador for taking an audio recording of her alleged meltdown during the cast promo shoot last season. Despite the pile-on, Ginella has maintained her calmness, apologized with sincerity, and owned up to her mistakes—and while she may be messy, she certainly isn’t the first Real Housewife, in this group included, to suffer growing pains.

Speaking of Beador’s reaction to the recording, Ginella said, “Her level of anger is a little bit much, considering there have been a lot worse things this cast has done, and she herself has been caught recording a few times.”

Ginella—who is on the outs with all but one unnamed Orange County Housewife—also reacted to Gina Kirschenheiter‘s claim that she would reconsider her spot in the group if she were to return to the show next season. “It took one person to kind of rile the whole group up to hate me, and it just seems like bully behavior right now,” she said.

When Ginella stopped by Decider’s studio, she also spoke about her friendship with Gretchen Rossi, why she called the blogger about Judge, and where she currently stands with Jenn Pedranti. Check out the full interview below.

DECIDER: It’s been a big season. There’s a lot going on. How did you feel going into your sophomore season?

KATIE GINELLA: I was a little apprehensive. I was coming off of the heels of the reunion, which was pretty traumatic for me. I didn’t even know if I was going to do another season or be asked to do another season. Going into the second, I was like, “I’m going to do this for me. I’m going to prove to myself that I’m strong enough to do this, and I’m going to try to speak up more for myself and voice my opinion.” I really was hoping to get to know these women a little bit more, to form some real friendships. 

In tonight’s episode, you talk about Kaili moving out just as you’re about to have all four of your kids under the same roof. How is everyone adjusting? 

We’re still working out the details of Max coming full time. It’s a little difficult, but even when they’re all home under one roof for holidays and summer, I sit at the dinner table and I just cry. They’re like, “We’re here now.” But I’m just so happy when they’re all together. 

I was just saying how much I’d like to see Kaili on a Next Gen spinoff. Is that something you could see for her? 

Absolutely. She actually really wants to do it. She was approached by a casting company that also casts for Next Gen. And so she mentioned it to me, and my husband and I were like, “You should do it if they ask you to do it.” She’d be great. 

I think she’d kill it. She’d be amazing. 

Yeah, I would love to see it. 

I want to jump into this season and get your full side of things. On WWHL, Emily defended her decision to bring up your custody situation at the reunion, despite saying that kids should be off limits. What’s your response to that?

At the finale last season, we agreed kids were off limits. Then we went into the reunion, and she then brought up my custody and legal battles. I was like, “Well, I thought we agreed kids were off limits.” So then my daughter did the podcast. That’s how this kind of tornado started of kids, no kids, kids, no kids. I also don’t agree that just because you say it to my face makes it OK to talk about the hardest point of my life when having to choose to give up custody was doing the right thing for my kids. I feel like that was just trying to paint me in a really bad light when I was really actually doing something in the best interests of them. And for a woman to say that to another woman who went through a hard time, that’s not OK. 

Tamra also accused you of spreading information about her through bloggers, who later came out with their own receipts. Did you see those? And is there anything you want to clarify? 

Sure. One of the bloggers, the main one, messaged me because she was potentially going to be sued by Tamra. She had posted something that Tamra was running a blogger account that trolled people, and so she posted about it without even knowing it was true or not. Tamra messaged her, “I’m going to sue you, I’m going to seek legal action or whatever.” And so the girl is freaking out saying, “Tamra is going to sue me.” So I called her on Instagram–forgetting that that even happened, it was so insignificant–and told her, “You’re going to be OK. She’s not going to sue you, but I think you should take the post down for your mental health. I think you should take it down.” And that’s how it went. I was being very kind and very open with this woman, and I didn’t know she would want 15 minutes of fame and come back later for it. 

I know Jenn kind of said that you felt like you were friends with some of the bloggers, when obviously we see they have ulterior motives sometimes. Would you agree with that? 

I don’t think that we can blanket statement and say they’re all like that, but I do think a majority of them are. And it was me in my first season being a rookie, not really understanding or knowing. I was trying to … if you’re going to talk about me, maybe get to know me, and then once you know who I am and you’re talking about me on the show, then you can speak better about me. Also, that’s how I was raised, and that’s how I operate normally, is to be kind to everyone and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, so I was befriending in a way. And that was a rookie mistake.

I like to see that you’re friends with Gretchen. Gretchen did say that every new housewife reaches out to her on how to deal with Tamra. Did you ever reach out to her or seek her advice in that department? 

I did not. I actually met her at a Balmain party in Beverly Hills, and she said, “Oh, you’re the new housewife.” This was last year. Then we discovered we had a mutual friend. So we all grabbed lunch one day. And that’s kind of how our friendship started. I never had any serious beef with Tamra, so I never had to talk to her about that. I do think that her and Jenn can kind of bond a little bit over that, but I never had that issue. 

I want to get into the Shannon stuff. I feel like there’s been a lot of he-said she-said, and a lot of yelling when you’re trying to get your side across. Take me through that promo shoot – what happened? And why did you record Shannon?

First let me say it’s not a video. It’s a voice memo. We were all having our gallery shoot right after we got back from London, and Shannon and I were not friends. She actually really disliked me because I was friends with Alexis. We were in a shared space. It was Jenn, me and Shannon’s teams. We’re getting our hair and makeup done. Shannon showed up a few hours late–two or three hours late–and was talking with production on a speakerphone, yelling and screaming, and disrupted the entire room. I was on a Zoom call. My husband was on the Zoom call because he is a part of my business with investors and other business partners. I abruptly hung up because it was so loud, even in my earbuds, that I couldn’t hear. My husband texted me like, “What’s going on?” And I said, “This is what’s going on.” And I voice-noted him what was happening. I’ve tried to move on from it. I’ve tried to apologize. I have accepted that I did it and that it was wrong. And she just can’t hear me. 

Tamra knew about the recording for almost a year before she decided to share it with everyone. Why do you think she sat on it for so long? 

That’s a good question. I don’t know, and that’s kind of the point I was trying to get across from her. Like, if you wanted to bring this up, I wish you would have brought it up at a more appropriate time and not at a lunch where I was trying to get the ladies to get to know me a little bit more and me to get to know them. Instead, it just spiraled. 

I think you have definitely owned up to your part in things. That whole thing with Shannon at Heather’s birthday party really shocked me. What surprised you the most from that conversation with her? 

I think her level surprised me. I’ve said to her, “You’re allowed to be angry. You’re not allowed to be disrespectful.” Calling me more evil than John Janssen and Alexis, I did not share it with Alexis. Alexis has not heard it. The only person that’s heard it and doesn’t even remember what it says is my husband. It’s so insignificant, I really forgot about it, honestly. That was April of 2024. [Shannon and I] became friends at the end of 2024. She finally started to trust me a little bit. So there was no, “Oh, I’ve got to tell you about this recording that I shared with everybody.” It was never that way because that’s just not what happened. Her level of anger is a little bit much, considering there have been a lot worse things this cast has done, and she herself has been caught recording a few times.

There’s been this resurfaced video of Shannon and Heather recording Kelly Dodd when she was kind of having a meltdown. What are your thoughts on that? 

I obviously wasn’t there, but Kelly Dodd posted something that was sent to me and she said, “It’s not true. It was a producer cam.” She tagged the producers from that season and said, “They recorded me without me knowing.” Also, last year there was somebody that recorded or had a voice call, a buttdial from Tamra and they aired it. Kelly Dodd also put out something that said that Shannon recorded Vicki and Michael when she was staying at Vicki and Michael’s house and they were having an argument. We’re all guilty of something of the sorts. I just feel like I’m taking the brunt of all the anger of her past with John and Alexis. 

When I talked to Tamra, she said that Jen eventually turns on you. What can you say about that? And where does your friendship with her stand today? 

It’s unfortunate, but Jenn and I are not as close as we were last year. 

That makes me so sad. 

It makes me pretty sad, too. 

What about Gina? She brought you into the group. Now she’s saying she’d reconsider her part in the group if you were back next year. What do you think about that whole thing? 

I think that it’s a convenient pile on of me that it took one person to kind of rile the whole group up to hate me, and it just seems like bully behavior right now. 

Is there anybody in the cast that you are still close with? Or have you had anybody in the Bravoverse to lean on during all this chaos? 

I do talk to one cast mate who has been pretty kind. I have gotten a lot of Housewives reach out and say they feel for me, they’ve been in the same spot sometimes. So that’s great. 

Even though your castmates are trying to give you this villain arc this season, the internet has really been on your side. What has that support meant to you? 

When you’re filming it and then waiting for it to be edited and aired, it’s just so much anxiety. You just don’t know how you’re going to be received. So I’m very grateful. I’m so thankful because you just don’t know, and I’ve gotten so much support. 

When I spoke to you last year, you said there was a 50/50 chance you would want to return for another season. What are those chances looking like for season 20? 

I think I’d love to return and actually get the women that I would be with to actually get to know me, because I don’t think I’ve been afforded that yet. 

You guys have a few cast trips coming up this season. What can you say about those? What are you excited to see? 

I’m not really excited to see any of it. I mean, New Orleans is beautiful and there were some parts that were fun that you’ll see, but every cast trip is pretty daunting.

Not so much a vacation. 

No, it’s definitely not. And I had never been to New Orleans, so I actually want to go back with my family because it’s a really cool city. But we didn’t really get to see much of the city. 

We’ve covered a lot. Is there anything else you can tease about the rest of the season or anything else you know you want people to know about what they’re going to see? 

I think the only thing I would say is when you see a face that you don’t recognize, you should Google them. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

New episodes of The Real Housewives of Orange County air Thursday nights at 9 p.m. ET/PT on Bravo. New episodes are available to stream the next day on Peacock.