The fifth episode of HBO’s IT: Welcome to Derry delivers a series of startling twists that intricately weave into the fabric of the Stephen King universe, keeping fans on the edge of their seats. Among the most jaw-dropping revelations is the identity of Madeline Stowe’s character, a revelation that ties back to familiar faces from King’s chilling tales.

In a surprising turn, it is unveiled that Ingrid, the nurse from Juniper Hill Asylum who befriends the young Lilly Bainbridge (played by Clara Stack), is in fact the younger incarnation of a character we’ve encountered in both the 2017 film It and its sequel, IT: Chapter Two.

**Spoilers for IT: Welcome to Derry Episode 5, currently available on HBO Max**

Episode 5 of IT: Welcome to Derry reveals Ingrid as none other than the young version of Mrs. Kersh, portrayed by Joan Gregson. This character is notorious for her eerie presence as the elderly woman who terrorizes an adult Beverly Marsh, played by Jessica Chastain, in IT: Chapter Two.

In King’s original novel, the members of the Loser’s Club return to Derry as adults to confront a reawakened Pennywise, brought to life by Bill Skarsgård. During her visit, Bev, seeking out her childhood home, encounters Mrs. Kersh, who now occupies the house following her father’s death. Mrs. Kersh seems welcoming, offering Bev tea, but an unsettling feeling that something is terribly wrong begins to creep in. This moment is a quintessential Stephen King setup, a crescendo of dread that builds to a terrifying climax. Andy Muschietti’s IT: Chapter Two intensifies this horror by suggesting that Mrs. Kersh’s father, Bob Grey, was none other than the original Pennywise the Clown.

“We’re humanizing that old lady that turns out to be the crone,” IT: Chapter Two executive producer and director Andy Muschietti told DECIDER. “When we did IT: Chapter Two, we didn’t know that years later we’d be telling the real story.”

“What happened in Derry in the ’60s? Well, there is a daughter of Bob Grey and she’s real. That doesn’t mean that the old lady in IT: Chapter Two is real,” he continued. “Because that woman died, actually, many years before.”

So the Mrs. Kersh that spooks Beverly in the film isn’t real; She’s a manifestation of Pennywise. The Mrs. Ingrid Kersh we meet in IT: Welcome to Derry is real. She is alive in the current timeline. She is Bob Grey’s daughter and she may know more about It than she’s letting on.

“It was a great opportunity to create a character that was a big participant in the story and tied us very much to the origin of Pennywise and the story of Bob Gray,” Andy Muschietti said.

“When we landed Madeleine, that [role] grew, that flourished, because she’s such an unbelievable actor. And I think she gave it an incredible dimension and and brain,” IT: Welcome to Derry executive producer Barbara Muschietti said. “We love that role. We would do a spin-off just on that role.”

Part of the additional dimension that IT: Welcome to Derry gives to Mrs. Kersh is explaining that she’s way more than a “crone” or even Pennywise’s daughter. Besides being a caring confidant for Lilly, she is also stuck in a loveless marriage to her cruel husband and she’s the white woman that Hank Grogan (Stephen Rider) has been having an affair with.

“I was excited [about Hank and Ingrid] because it was another layer that I didn’t know. Especially in the audition, I had no idea,” Rider told DECIDER. “Andy revealed it to me when we were having a conversation and I was like, ‘This is awesome.’ Because he has so much more to fight for —”

“And to hide!” IT: Welcome to Derry star Chris Chalk added.

“And to hide,” Rider agreed.

“Like, why is he not telling [his alibi for the movie theater murders]… if you wasn’t there?” Chalk said.

By the end of IT: Welcome to Derry, Hank has reunited with Mrs. Kersh after the bus meant to take him to Shawshank crashes. It’s clear from just one scene that the two star-crossed lovers share a deep love for one another.

“When I met Madeline, I mean, Madeline is a star, a G, and committed,” Rider said, before revealing that Stowe didn’t hesitate at all in building that intimacy between their characters. “She made it so much easier. Yeah, she’s phenomenal.”

This week’s Mrs. Kersh/Ingrid reveal is just the latest way in which IT: Welcome to Derry connects with the characters in It and IT: Chapter Two. One of the little boys who dies in Episode 1 is Teddy Uris (Mikkal Karim-Fidler) is actually the uncle of original Loser’s Club member Stanley Uris (Wyatt Olef as a child, Andy Bean as an adult). Will Hanlon (Blake Cameron James) is obviously Mike Hanlon’s (Chosen Jacobs as a child, Isaiah Mustafa as an adult) dad. We even see another bullying Bowers in town. Andy and Barbara Muschietti confirmed to DECIDER that there “at least two big twists where they’re definitely connected to the characters that we know” from the original still to come!

“I can’t spoil them, but you have to wait for them,” Andy Muschietti said.

“You know, the bloodlines are incredibly important in Derry because Pennywise shows up every 27 years,” Barbara Muschietti said. “Which is once a generation, basically.” 

“Also, generational trauma is such a big theme in the book that it is almost impossible not to tell the story of ancestors, just to kind of comment on why people are the way they are,” Andy Muschietti said.

“Before it was called ‘generational trauma,’” Barbara Muschietti said, chuckling.