During the Obama administration, Former Secretary of State John Kerry found himself in a defensive position when an MSNBC host highlighted the fact that Russia had annexed Crimea under his leadership.

MSNBC’s Chris Jansing spoke with Kerry from inside the Vatican on Friday ahead of Pope Francis’ Saturday funeral.

Jansing mentioned how Pope Francis was a “voice for peace” and had been outspoken about the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine. 

“You were Secretary of State when Russia annexed Crimea,” Jansing said. “And I want to ask you —”

“But when they stated they were,” Kerry interrupted. “We did not allow them to annex it. And we stood and we stood up against it.”

“Right,” Jansing agreed. “They said that it was theirs.”

“Yeah, they said it, but under international law, that does not make it theirs,” Kerry responded.

Jansing went on to ask Kerry what he thought of President Donald Trump’s suggestion that under a potential peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine that Russia would maintain control of Crimea. 

“Well, who knows?” Kerry reacted. “I personally don’t agree with putting that out there on the table.”

“It’s a dramatic change in US policy,” Jansing said. 

“Huge — I just said I don’t necessarily agree with putting that out there on the table,” Kerry continued. “Who knows what the parties will accept. Clearly, it has to be perceived by each party as being fair to them and as a balanced outcome somehow. And I think that to announce where you’re coming down as a mediator ahead of time puts everybody in a very difficult position.”

“I applaud the president for pursuing this. I know he’s dogged about it. He wants to have peace. I believe that, and I wish him well in their efforts to try to get there. It’s a tough task, but it’s doable. And I think it’s really important for the administration to continue to work at it,” Kerry added.