For more than four hours the supremely self-assured governor of California held court, waxing lyrical about his policies, beliefs and vision.

Then came the simple yes or no question which stumped him. Should eight-year-old children be given medical treatments to change their biological sex?

‘Now that I have a nine-year-old, just turned nine, come on man…’ Gavin Newsom said, shifting uncomfortably as he spoke. Podcaster Shawn Ryan allowed him to continue.

‘I get it,’ insisted Newsom, leaving unspoken what the ‘it’ was that he ‘got.’

‘So those are legitimate… You know, the topic of age is interesting, I haven’t…’ At that point, he laughed about his awkward attempts to use a person’s chosen pronouns and mentioned being teased by his Hispanic staff for saying the trendy term ‘Latinx.’

Newsom’s discomfort on the issue was palpable and no doubt came as a surprise to those familiar with his earlier proclamations on the subject.

Monday’s podcast episode is just one in a series of the adaptable governor’s public appearances, but it may be his most striking yet, as he openly aims for a future presidential run.

For more than four hours the supremely self-assured governor of California held court, waxing lyrical about his policies, beliefs and vision. Then came the simple yes or no question which stumped him.

Newsom’s discomfort on the issue was palpable and no doubt came as a surprise to those familiar with his earlier proclamations on the subject. (Pictured: Newsom at the 2019 Pride Parade in San Francisco)

In October 2021, he ‘proudly’ signed into law the ‘profoundly important’ AB 1184, which allows children as young as 12 to be treated with cross-sex hormones or puberty blockers without parental consent. Only sexual reassignment surgery is restricted.

In September 2022, he declared California a ‘sanctuary state’ for trans kids, ensuring they can receive hormone therapy and puberty blockers which are forbidden in their home states, and shielding them and their families from prosecution.

And in July last year he signed AB 1955 into law, legally preventing teachers from ‘outing’ trans children to their parents. Elon Musk, whose estranged daughter Vivian, 21, is trans, called the bill ‘the final straw’ in his decision to relocate SpaceX’s headquarters from California to Texas.

What a difference looming unemployment makes. Come November 2026, as his second gubernatorial term ends, Newsom will be out of a job.

He has feigned surprise at being asked about his 2028 presidential ambitions. ‘I’m not thinking about running, but it’s a path that I could see unfold,’ he told The Wall Street Journal last month.

But his glad-handing tour of early primary state South Carolina’s churches and community centers last week, on top of a flurry of podcast appearances, leaves little doubt as to his aspirations.

And, in his apparent bid to become the face of the Democratic Party, the formerly woke Newsom has swung significantly to the right.

Ryan, on whose podcast Newsom appeared this week for a four-hour sit down, is a conservative former Blackwater contractor and Navy SEAL, who the Newsom of old would have shunned.

Similarly, in March, when Newsom launched his own podcast, This Is Gavin Newsom, his first three guests were pro-Trump figures he would once have held in disdain: activist Charlie Kirk, radio host Michael Savage, and former White House strategist Steve Bannon.

Instead, the governor used his conversation with Kirk to announce that he no longer supports trans women participating in female sporting competitions – enraging many progressives within his own party. 

A gladhanding tour of early primary state South Carolina’s churches and community centers last week, on top of a flurry of podcast appearances, leaves little doubt as to Newsom’s leadership aspirations.

Newsom faced criticism for inviting Trump ally Charlie Kirk onto his new podcast show.

Steve Bannon was among the Trump supporters Newsom would once have disdained who was invited on the eponymous podcast.

He doubled down on his new stance this week, declaring to Ryan: ‘I went on a journey on this, and now I think it’s firm – it’s not fair.’

Not content with changing course on trans issues Newsom also used his time in Ryan’s uber-masculine den to send a mixed message on gun control and flip flop on immigration.

In June 2023, Newsom said that current gun laws were ‘an existential crisis that we are experiencing every single day,’ and announced a proposal to amend the US Constitution with a 28th amendment.

Among other things, it would raise the federal age to buy a gun from 18 to 21, ban so-called assault weapons and mandate universal background checks and a waiting period between the purchase of a gun and its delivery.

Yet when Ryan presented Newsom with a pistol – a SIG Sauer P365 X-Macro – the governor enthusiastically replied with a bro-like, ‘Cool!’

He added: ‘The last thing people would expect is that I respect this gift. I’m not anti-gun at all’ – and then went on to discuss his love of bow hunting and reveal how ‘great’ he was at skeet shooting.

Turning to the thorny topic of immigration he told Ryan that he privately confronted Joe Biden’s team about the chaos at the US-Mexico border.

‘I was trying to manage the politics, trying to have the back of the president, but very, very critical saying: “You guys wake up! The hell is going on down here?”‘

It was all very different from what he said publicly during the Biden administration when he was full of praise for the former president’s approach and insisted that the fault lay solely with Republicans.

Visiting the border in December 2022 Newsom stated, ‘Instead of working on real reform, the response from Republicans has been to exploit the situation at our border for political gain.’

Little wonder that, for some, the governor’s series of pivots is nothing short of a ‘WTF?’ moment.

Anthony Rendon, who was speaker of the assembly when Newsom was elected, said California Democrats he knew were baffled by his slide away from the progressive policies he previously championed.

‘They’re mystified,’ he told Cal Matters. ‘WTF?’ is the most common text message I get.’

Johanna Maska, a California resident who spent eight years working as an aide in the Obama White House said, ‘I’m a huge believer in talking to conservatives, but not changing who you are.’

She told the Daily Mail she was dismayed at how Newsom ‘licked Charlie Kirk’s boots’, and accused him of, ‘pretty blatant electioneering.’

Monday’s podcast episode is just the latest, though perhaps most egregious, shape-shifting move by the mercurial governor, who has made little secret of his presidential ambitions. 

Newsom also used his time in Ryan’s uber-masculine den to send a mixed message on gun control and flip flop on immigration.

Ludovic Blain, executive director of the progressive donor network California Donor Table, told the site that Newsom was ‘capitulating to authoritarians,’ adding: ‘He’s turning the Democratic Party into one that stands for nothing. We do expect Gavin to be better.’

Voters seem equally bemused.

Paul Mitchell, a voter data expert, asked 1,000 Californians for their opinion of Newsom before and after the Kirk episode, and found that almost half said their view was less favorable after it.

‘In the short-term, wow, Republicans are not convinced, and Democrats are not pleased,’ said Mitchell, telling Cal Matters that the conservatives he surveyed were suspicious of Newsom’s intentions, while the liberals felt betrayed.

‘If he’s trying to get away from the Gavin Newsom caricature, then that might be something he’s doing.’

For his part, Newsom insists his pivots are genuine.

Back in March, after CNN’s Erin Burnett ran a segment titled, ‘What in God’s name is going on with Gavin Newsom?’, the governor insisted his revised thinking was not naked electioneering, but rather thoughtful policy evolution.

‘I’m open to argument,’ he told The Los Angeles Times. ‘I’m interested in evidence. I have very strong values. I’m a progressive but I’m a pragmatic one, and that’s something that anyone who has followed me knows, and people that don’t, they’re learning a little bit about that now.’

His former chief of staff, Steve Kawa, also told the publication that he was sincere.

‘Maybe he’s moderate on this issue, maybe he’s progressive on this issue. I don’t think he looks at it in terms of under what column is this solution to make life better for the public and I can only be in this column.’

Jonathan Keller, CEO of the California Council, was less sure.

‘While we appreciate any acknowledgment that California’s radical gender ideology policies have gone too far, we remain skeptical of Governor Newsom’s apparent shift,’ he told the Daily Mail.

‘For years, his administration has championed dangerous policies that undermine parental rights, threaten the safety of women and girls, and impose harmful ideologies on our children.

‘True leadership requires consistent principled positions rooted in biological reality and respect for parental authority, not politically convenient pivots when national ambitions are at stake.’

He added: ‘We’ll judge Governor Newsom by his actions, not his election-season rhetoric. Any genuine reconsideration of these destructive policies would be welcome.

‘But Californians have learned to be wary of this governor’s shifting positions when political winds change.’