CHICAGO (AP) — Newly unveiled transcripts from private interviews with a senior U.S. Border Patrol official and other key figures driving the immigration crackdown in the Chicago area have brought to light some tense exchanges. These interactions reveal how leaders sidestepped inquiries about notable instances of force being used.

Greg Bovino, the Border Patrol chief at the helm of an operation resulting in over 3,000 arrests since September, participated in a sworn deposition over a span of three days in late October and early November. After completing his stint in Chicago, Bovino moved to North Carolina to lead a similar initiative and is anticipated to direct another operation in New Orleans as early as next week.

Transcripts from Bovino’s deposition, made public on Tuesday, provide insight into pivotal moments highlighted by U.S. District Judge Sara Ellis in her recent 223-page opinion. The opinion covers a lawsuit accusing federal agents of excessive force against protesters, journalists, and clergy.

Earlier this month, Judge Ellis issued a preliminary injunction limiting agents’ use of physical force and chemical agents like tear gas and pepper balls unless deemed necessary to prevent an “immediate threat.” However, a federal appeals court temporarily suspended the order shortly thereafter. Tricia McLaughlin, spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, praised the appeals court’s decision, calling it “a win for the rule of law and for the safety of every law enforcement officer.”

Deposition transcripts reveal tense clashes between attorneys

The deposition was contentious from the outset. A U.S. Department of Justice attorney, Sarmad Khojasteh, expressed dissatisfaction when an attorney representing the coalition of protesters, journalists, and faith leaders failed to shake Bovino’s hand upon arrival, setting a tense tone for the proceedings.

“That was noted,” Khojasteh said on Oct. 30. “I get your position. This is like the hill you’re going to die on here. That’s fine. Treat him with respect. Treat me with respect.”

“Treat the process with respect, sir,” the plaintiffs’ attorney Locke Bowman responded.

The tense standoffs between the attorneys also included Khojasteh calling Bowman a “petulant old man” as Bowman accused Khojasteh of hindering the proceedings through constant objections.

“Stop it. Just stop it,” Bowman finally said after Khojasteh consistently objected to questions throughout the deposition.

Bovino evades questions about immigration agents’ use of force

The transcripts also include hours of Bovino giving evasive responses as he defended agents’ use of force and characterized protesters as “violent rioters.”

He was repeatedly questioned over an Oct. 23 protest in the historically Mexican-American neighborhood of Little Village, where Bovino initially claimed he threw tear gas canisters after being hit with a rock, which he said hurt but did not break skin. As he was questioned, Bovino admitted he was “mistaken” and the rock was thrown after he threw the tear gas. Ellis has accused Bovino of lying about the incident in court.

When he was asked if he threw “a canister of CS gas,” Bovino said he did not.

“Okay. Why not?” he was asked.

“You said canister. I threw two. That’s — that’s plural,” Bovino responded.

Bovino also said he believed agents were justified in using tear gas in a residential neighborhood prior to a Halloween parade before admitting he had not reviewed any footage of the incident.

He continued to dodge questions, even after being shown a clip of himself tackling a man to the ground during a protest outside a federal immigration facility in the west Chicago suburb of Broadview. After attorneys played footage of the man’s arrest, Bovino repeatedly denied that he tackled “an older gentleman” in the video and dodged questions on whether he used force. Bovino acknowledged that he made physical contact with the man, but denied that he applied force.

Other officials dodge questions about ‘Operation Midway Blitz’

Private interviews with other federal officials — Russell Hott, a US. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement official, and Daniel Parra, deputy chief patrol agent at Customs and Border Protection — also showed bickering between attorneys and lawyers representing the federal government consistently objecting to questioning.

During his deposition, Hott acknowledged that ICE agents do not receive regular training on crowd control and that he too had no crowd control experience before arriving in Broadview, the site of tense demonstrations over the last few months. He also admitted that the consistent use of tear gas and pepper balls stopped after Illinois State Police took over responding to these protests.

Hott also dodged questions about use of force, including by saying he doesn’t know the context when asked if use of force was justified against a pastor shot in the head with pepper balls while praying. Parra, meanwhile, repeated “I do not recall” when asked about specific incidents in use of force reports presented by attorneys during his deposition.

Parra also admitted that Border Patrol agents do not typically work in dense urban areas or in situations where they encounter protesters — an issue brought up by Ellis in court as she slammed agents for engaging in high-speed car chases and using crowd control techniques she said were inappropriate for urban areas.

“This isn’t the border,” she said.

Parra also said he could not “think of at the moment” any evidence that Ellis’ restrictions on use of force are adversely affecting Border Patrol enforcement operations. This comes after attorneys argued in court that complying with the requirements would halt immigration enforcement operations.